I was renamed Ramotaung or Ramotongoe after my great grandfather who was Mosina who fathered my grandmother

Ke Motlhaping wa ga Maidi,
Ke tlhapa ka kgatsele, ke iphora ka tlhoa metsi ale teng,
Ke itlhotsa ka lobebe lwa lebese...

Ke ana Tholo jaaka barolong cos batlhaping were originally barolong... a ke nnete?

Kgang e etota e gakgamatsa,ke tota ke bua ke lebile koo East Africa e leng teng..... Banna 14th Centuary ke bona e le ngwaga yoo aneng a sa rate Batswana ka gore ke fao o re latlhetse kwa Borwa jwa Africa.A ga jaana ke retlhobogilwe East to South Africa :::: Ke tota ke tlala bogale ke tladiwa ke maithamako ano a, Ke mongwe yoo a dumelang mo Setswaneng fa sere (fa o sa itse botsa).

Karabo eo o e boneng e seka ya go kgotsofatsa mme tswelela Motswana yo montlenyana ngwana wa thari e ntsho o ipatle o ipatlisise, felo gongwe gone karabo o tla e bona.Ka ga go batla tlhago ya gaeno mo makwalong lebala (Mogologolo ga lebale o itse kwa a tswang tota le fa a Robetse o itse go ikaya) se nyatse bo Mmago/Rrago mogolo ka kitso batla go tswela molemo.

Ke a lorato Batswana ....... bo ntshupeng ke le kgakajana,merafe yotlhe ya Batswana.

Tshwaelo ya gago e bontsha gore ke nnete tota fa go twe 'pelo e senang phufa, selo ya bo e se sa yona'. Mme gape e bontsha tsholofetso ya lejasa (intellectual)mo go wena.

Fa o re tlhago ya Betswana e simolotse mo nakong ya ditlhaselo tsa Matebele, o raya gore lotlotlo lwa Betswana le na le dingwaga di le tlase ga makgolo a mabedi (200)!!!!!

Go na le dintlha tse dingwe gape tse o di umakang mme le teng fao o bontsha gore ga o na kitso epe tota.

Fa o eletsa bojasa (if u aspiring intellectual)go tlhokega o itshupa jalo ka go eteletsa dintlha le bopaki kwa pele. Maikutlo ke kgato ya ntlha e e go shwegashwegisang pelo gore o tsibogele mabaka.

The Batswana originated in South Africa during Mzilikazi war. They split and some went to North of South Africa (It is where we find Bapedi today) and some went to Thaba Nchu and Lesotho. If we are related to Lesotho where are they coming from. As much as I studied history Zulus and Batswana were the original group found in SA. From the Culture of Zulus is where Xhoza, Swazi and Ndeble came from.

Delete this page you are confusing people. I have a grandma who died in 2005 at age 130. She has a history of Batswana and never ever has she ever mention that Batswana where from East Africa. Can you please proof you information.

Mamonkgatiti wa lewa
Di ka na matsorotsoro
Tsa ba tsa gwasa kwa le kwa
Tshwene ke naiwa mmele
Makopong ke naiwe
Ke sirelediwa ke seriba

Tshwene fa di ya masimong
Go etelela tshwene-gadi pele
Rotwe a sale kwa morago
A sale a di retolola

Ke ne ke fudile ka tlatsa
Ka kgotjwa ka relela ka wa
Papalo tsa ya le maritse
Majwe etsho a borethe

Mme nna tota ba gaetsho, ga ke bone bopaki jo bo wetsang pelo ka phopholetso ya Egepetwa. Ga ke gane, go na le mafoko a SeEgepetwa sa bogologolotala a a seng kgakala le a Setswana. Fa e le gore seo se paka fa Betswana ba tswa kwa Egepetwa, ke eng se sa pake fa MaEgepetwa a tswa kwa Borwa jwa Aferika. Puo ya Mathosa, Basotho le Mazulu, e na le mafoko a Sesarwa mo go tsone, a seo se raya gore merafe eo e tswa mo Masarweng kampo Masarwa a tswa mo merafeng eo?

Ga ke itse gore ke ba le kae betsho ba ba nang le kitso ka matlotla/dithako tsa Waterval Boven, Machadodorp le Carolina mo porofenseng ya Mpumalanga. Go bolelwa fa dithako tseno di ise d tlhotlhomisiwe mme ga twe ke tsa bogologolotala jo bo ka nnang dingwaga di le 160 000 go fitlha go 200 000.

Fa o lebelela ditshwantsho tsa godimo tsa dithako tseo, moago wa tsona ke ditheko, mesako kgotsa mediko fela jaaka re itse Betswana ba aga ka lejwe. Fa o na le nako, o ka bapisa (ka google maps) meago eo le ya Kaditshwene le Tswenyane e e neng e le moshate wa Bahurutshe mo Madikwe mme o tla bona gore ga go na pharologano e e kalokalo.

Fa o latelela tshedimosetso e e teng ka dithako tsa Mpumalanga, o tla lemoga gore, fela jaaka re itsitse, boraaitse ba tsona ga ba di amanye le merafe ya Aferika Borwa ya ga jaana.

Tota fa e le gore Betswana ba tswa kwa Egepetwa betsho, mme ntlha ga ba a tla le tonki!

Nte ke go tlogele ka nopolo e e latelang:

I have been following with keen interest the topics here, of interest is the origins of Batswana in particular. Ga Lowe, where is that?
Answers lie in ancient Egypt, some of our dialects are Egyptian and if you follow ancient Egyptian history you will be amazed at striking similarities in behavioural patterns, traditions, rituals and language.

If you follow the trail we came down here long before Jesus was born coupled with the fact that Setswana is the third most spoken language in Africa. Batswana left Egypt when the Greeks took over Egypt.

"Just think, that this race of Black men, today our slave and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, sciences, and even the use of speech!”- Count Constantine de Volney.

Traditionally Barolong and Bahurutshe when they dance, ladies dance with their hand up ba lemisitse and going in circle. The man used go rebetwa by themselves. With the mixing of the san people and Batswana some of the dance was added into Setswana dance which is Ok as they lived among each other.

The Great Lakes Twa, also known as Abatwa or Ge-Sera, or in English as Batwa, are a pygmy people who were the oldest recorded inhabitants of the Great Lakes region of central Africa. Current populations are found in the states of Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, and the eastern portion of the Democratic Republic of Congo. In 2000, they numbered approximately 80,000 people, making them a significant minority group in these countries.[2]
There are also a number of southern Twa populations in Angola, Namibia, Zambia, and Botswana living in swamps and deserts where there has never been forest. These are little studied, and this article deals only with the Twa of the Great Lakes region. (source: Wikipedia)

In comparing the traditional dance of the Batwa and Basarwa to that of Batswana one cannot but acknowledge the striking similarities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgLRwljzrCk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLiwhvc7Axg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckK_H7BkMZw&feature=related

From the videos it is clear that these supposedly different ethnic groups have the same cultural backround which is evidenced by their traditional dances. For the purpose of making linguistic comparisons, I have searched for some text in the Twa and Sarwa language but had no success.

Batwa according to Wikipedia are found around the area of the Great Lakes. This is the area where the ancient Egyptians said they originated. One of their first Gods is Ptah who is depicted as a Mutwa/Twa. Within the word Egypt is hidden the name Ptah. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSqu3Xj02zA

Thankfully I still speak Se-Twa-Na and can fill in the gaps. The name Ptah is the same as Batwa or B-Twa. The letter "P" and “B” are interchangeable thus "Pa/Ba/B" and Tah/TH(spelt TH in ancient egyptian) is pronounce ToaH. Therefore Ptah should be written BaToaH/BaTuaH or PaToaH/BaTuaH. In Phoenetics “ua” becomes “wa” and the “H” falls away and then you have BaTwa/PaTwa/B-Twa/P-Twa

Creation according to ancient Egyptian mystery began in the waters of “Nu” with Ptah/BTwa emerging as a mound. The word “Nu” in hieroglyphics is represented by ʍʍʍ expressed as the letter ‘N’ to which you can add a vowel. This area will need further investigation and supporting evidence. For the present it is my conclusion that ‘na” in BaTwana/Batswana is the same as “nu”.

Bahurutshe bo o Ra Moiloa ko Dinokana - my grandfather is Ramokonopi III - Onkgopotse Moiloanyana

Batlokwa ba ga Tlholoe - my grandmother is Itseng Batlokwa daughter of Kgosi Tapose (khoisan) and Princess Mo-otso
Batlokwa ba ga Bogatsu - uncles and nephews
and all the clans that come after.

My late father is James Gladstone Dean - 2nd son of the last daughter of the exiled Ghanian monarch King Prempeh from Seychelles. he was raised in Zanzibar and the family moved to south africa via mozambique and they settled first in kzn then they moved to Roodepoort West.

I'd like to invite you online at facebook Page - Batswana - Descendants of 6th Dynasty Pharaohs and i ask you to contact me by email at royalcovenant@gmail.com or by calling 0027780328052 where we can address issues of our origins- culture- custom and kingdom.

Ke leboga kitso yotlhe ya ga Rre Khunou le bakwadi botlhe kaga Batswana. Ke maswabi ka ditlhapa tsa bangwe!

Please help.

I am looking for information on one Johannes Bahumi Lesejane who lived in Phela/Matlhako/Tampostad before he was assassinated in a bogosi ascendancy related dispute on 26 December 1979. He was decapitated and chopped to pieces and his house burdened down by the so-called "Makeke".

He was a teacher and the published Setswana author of the book "Monageng" (J.B. Lesejane) which is currently out of print. I believe there is an individual out there who "owns" the copyright to the book which was originally published by Van Schaik.

I am going through a personal growth process - having survived cancer and am currently, as I write, recuperating from a heart operation, and I would love to honor and bring the essence of my beloved grandfather home by writing his biography.

I am working on his biography and would also be eternal grateful for help in obtaining a copy of Monageng.

In conclusion, today I learned of a youngster - Bahumi Mogorosi (now 17) whose body was grievously mutilated in the same village in August 2007 - lost his tongue, genitalia and lips, in what the national media called a "muti" attack.

There are also rumors that the attack was because of his being named Bahumi for my grandfather. This youngster's father is one Alpheus (now 46). In my family - ALPHEUS was late grand dad's father. The Mogorosis are NOT related to us.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Kwanele Asante-Shongwe
Molebatsi@breastsens.com

My parents are adamant that we are Barolong, however, other sources that I have consulted disagree with this and say that the surname Boligello should be spelt as BODIGELO and that the current spelling was as a result of colonial name changes and that we belong to the Batlhaping.

I recently came across a BODIGELO from Botswana and he was a MOKWENA.

Ke dula mo Florida, Gauteng, Bothata jwa ka ke gore ga ke dumedisa batswana ba bangwe ba itira e ke te ke makgowa!!! ke tenwa ke bo 'HI'OR HOWZIT. Re tla ipela leng ka setso sa rona?

Ke tlhoka ditsala, ke tlaga ko Mareetsane gaufi le Mahikeng.

But I'm ashamed I never got to practise my language but I might say that I belong to a very sacred, intelligent, rich, ernoumous, passionate and proud people. Some of you may call us the lost generation but you are wrong - my people are the real deal and I'm very proud to say I am Tswana. I am Mofurutshe, we are not known and taken seriously in mordern society, but it can only be because our euphoria was and is still intimidating and massive, powerfull aswell and those of you who are ashamed of your origin the term ''lost generation refers to you.

I would really like to learn more about my culture from the traditions, rituals,dress code and symbols. I've recently moved to Johannesburg and if anyone knows of a village or group I can join to learn more about Batswana please contact me.

Please do not introduce intellectual dehydration into social relations of life. You are talking about Ntu/Mohale/Modjadji! What is Ntu? I bet you have not even given it thought. A few ethnologist who bothered to find out the meaning of the word 'motho', were told that it means 'speaker'. If so, its origins can probably be traced to the sound that those half human monkeys made as they were tasting the herbs and spitting (in the African thickets). Try it yourself and listen to the sound that you make as you spit.

'Ntu' may well be a variant of 'tho', constructed disingenuously during periods of conflict. You must therefore be careful and not confuse peaches for nectarines.

Now you say all African are a nation! Peoples have different value systems and beliefs shaped by their environments and experience. So people organize (into unique nations) themselves differently as a result. To say that all Africans are a single nation is to deny their unique experiences and their inalienable right to organize themselves therefore.

Also, how can a continent have only one nation? It is galling to hear people reason the way you do. It seems like you are in an 'too eager to please mode'. Please know that this sort of mode and world view is unnecessary because it takes people away from reality and the truth.

Morara is son of Noto, Noto son of Morolong, Morolong the founding father of the nation.

There is evidence that Batswana lived near an ocean, hence names like Whale (Leruarua) waves (makhubu a Lewatle, Ocean- Lewatle. They are not necessarily inland people.

Ke namane ya tholo,ke motho wa ga morakile-yoo- Setlhare! Motho yo lehuto le senang boranollo,le ranollwa ke yoo thata hela! Motho wa go sa utlwe sentle ka ditsebe, motlola ka noko matlola ka kgare naga e tletse tshetsana! Kana ba re motho wa ga morakile o le lebelo bare le pitse o ka sia!

Ke ne kere ke lo latswise hela go se gokaenyana!

Ke kopa gore ha go na le mongwe yo a nang le kitso e erileng ka ga BARKILE kgotsa bathoba ga morakile ba kwale se ba se itseng ka tswee-tswee!

If there is a family of MODIBETSANE that I don't know somewere, please let me know.

I am certain that there is no Sehuba tribe amount the tribes of Batswana. If you are asking about Barolong-baga-Sehuba (children of Sehuba) batho ba go tshwaa lokekekete then those will be the elders of the current ruling dynasty of Barolong where ever they(Barolong) are including Batlhaping. They are related to Badiboa (children of Modiboa).

You are taking things at face value and seem to think life started instantly with what you see today, i.e. different groups and subgroups that are independent and have no common ancestary.

You will find some fascinating facts about the relationship between Bantu and Asiatic people.

Have you ever wondered why is it that the certain words sound similar in different languages words many languages e.g.
1. Ngwee, Gunye, Uno, One etc.
2. Tharo, Ntatu, Three, etc.
3. The following may not sound close to each other but...
3.1 Tshela/tshelela, six
3.2 Supa, seven
3.3 Robedi, eight
3.4 robongwe, nine

These last two, while they could be co-incidental, if etymologically true might mean that Bantu and in particular Tswana and Sotho may be using the Root words because robedi and robongwee have meaning while the english equivalents don't and the original (root) words lost or changed as their ancestors 'Migrated out of Africa'.

What you say about holding a conference, unless it is followed through, is nothing but a good idea and we will see the next 1000 generations saying the same thing but doing nothing about it.

I understand putting this thing together is take a lot of resources from your part and everyone else who might be making a contribution, but considering what is at stake, if the objective is achieved and we are able to establish a movement that will solidly emphasise the Batswana, I suppose it wont be in vain after all.

I stumbled upon this site while searching for exactly what is being discussed here. I think that if this is only talk without action we might as well call it a day and maybe adopt any other western culture as many are doing now and leave the history (and future) of our people, nation and ancestor to oblivion. That will be tragedy of course, but we still have time and maybe like Mr. Khunou says this is our first step, so let's step up and step ahead.

I have read with interest all the various comments. May I ask....when the history of the ancestors are sung or recited ..does it reflect the male ancestor only...clan names? Does the clan name perpetuate with both male and female? Surnames? Same question as above....

I have had conflicting information given, by various institutions, researchers, etc., and need to clarify and design appropriate forms for recording the information to be then placed on the Familysearch website... and if anybody can be so kind as to perhaps give me his or her ancestral history to enable me to compile the guidelines for the research correctly, it will be a great help.

We envisage to have all of the peoples of Africa on a electronic database, so as to preserve the ancestral knowledge for generations to come.

Remember:" When an old man dies it is as if a Libary has burnt down", and "a persons memory only lasts until the sandblanket covers him", so precious knowledge are lost, because we do not record what our elders know. Please can you assist so that your ancestors will never be forgotten by the children and their children?

Needless to say, there are many 'tales' or stories that seem to have been told and while they sound like folklore it may have been the best way our ancesters could ensure that history is told from one generation to another in an uncomplicated way. Any scientific attempts at the time wll have been to complex for people to remember all detials.

Consider the story of Moshemane wa Sankatana who saved his people from a huge monster. Some historians believe this story has its origins in the jurrasic age. True or not we will never know.

What of the recent challenges to some biblical stories such as Noar's Ark. Some now believe this was a folklore (somewhere in Africa, Egypt I think) which found its way into the Bible Hebrew scripts. Some don't think it ever happened.

Perhaps the answer is not to literally interprete these stories but we need a new science to derive fact from a simple story that sounds mythical. Afterall anthropology and archeology ahve developed a science to gerive fact from simple things such as rock art, and simple bones and human tools lying around in ruins or fossilised in time.

There could be a science from deriving fact from Moswara, Tebele, Masilo, Masilonyana, Morongwe and Morengwenyana story.

I am still concerned about people who deny and dismiss with contempt the theory of North and Eastern origion. Most of those who challenge it do not offer alternative theory supported by undisputable or credible evidence. Their knee-jerk reaction sounds like the current debate on Australopicas-Sediba as the 'missing link' to homo- species. At least until a few decades ago there were scientist who questioned the 'Out of Africa' theory which suggested that all world civilizations are descendants of black 'Africans' perhaps because such a suggestion was 'insulting' or not in keeping with white or western, including other Asian people, 'inferior' Africa sterotyping. Now, that debate has died down and most scientist accept the 'Out of Africa Migration' theory, sterotypes are questioning the recent Australopecas-Sediba science linking the fossil finds to homo- species.

The above sterotype seems to be prevalent in the denial of the inter and intra Nguni-Sotho relations and from North and East migration theory.

No science and evidence so far beats the one being used to argue the Bantu North & East migration and intra-inter relation.

While reading the web links provided by Tebello Thejane, I was struck by a wikipedia article on the Kingdom of Mutapa. In particular as I was interpreting the origin of the term Mutapa ()Munhu-(person) wekuta)nga-(the first) wepasi-(of the ground/Earth)). If you look closely at this Shona expression you can deduce the following close to Tswana match;

Munhu = Motho (Person)
kutanga = wa ntlha or Mantlha (first)
wepasi = wa Lefatshe (Earth)

Another translation 'Mwenemutapa (Lord of the conquered land).' shows another similarity

Mwene = Morena (Lord/Chief/King)
(Mu) tapa = hapa (Conquer)

Clearly there is an influence between these languages which is why they are all classified as Bantu (not just Zulu) and therefore the people as Bantu people. You find this similarity as you go further East(e.g. Hakuna Matata = Ha hona mathatha or aguna nkinga) or in the North, west africa in particular (e.g Nyonga in one of the Nigerian languages means snake which is equivalent to Noha in Sotho/Tswana and iNyoka in Nguni).

Unless you then claim that the Sothos and Ngunis migrated Northwards and influenced the people they met. However Archeological evidence shows a a South-ward migration.

Someone asked why is it that the people in the East or North then speak Sotho or isiZulu. Clearly that is a myopic question which lacks the science of evolution (cultural and language) It seems others think that Sotho or Nguni languages are as old as life is on the universe (billions of years). These languages have evolved through influence with one another and other non-Bantu languages. For example I came across an article which suggests that some of the words and in particular names of Sotho/Nguni places were originally Khoisan words, e.g. Ukhahlamba

I think the debate about whether we migrated from East or North or South or West should not be our obsession. Our obession should how trace our lineage and were we connect with one another. How our langauges have influenced one another and our cultures.

It will be interesting to go through the family tree of Batswans, Basotho and Bapedi and trace where all the tribes come from, i.e Bahurutse, Barolong, Batlhaping, Bakgatla, Bakwena, Bataung, Batlokwa,

I am a Kgabo Mokgatla wa Mmakau. How do I relate with all the other Bakgatlas. Are all the Nakgatlas descesdants of Chief Mokgatla/e. Is it true that he established his 'Chiefdom' or should I say 'Kingdom' in eastern transvaal. Which will mean that all the Bakgatlas in Botswana are originally from eastern transvaal. Is Chief Tshwane (Pretoria now named after him) a Mokgatla too? So many questions and few answers. As someone said we need to start writing our history down istead of telling it from one genration to another.

It will be interesting to explain why Basotho will say 'qala' and Batswana bare 'simolla' and on the other hand Bapedi will say 'thoma'. One explanation I got was that qala is actually an influence of isiZulu and isiXhosa and that there are many such influences since Basotho have bordered Zulus and Xhosas. Hence lately I've been hearing Lesedi FM (Sotho) using the wor simolla instead of qala in their news programmes perhaps to reclaim the original word.

There is also an explanation of the influence of Batlokwa (Manthatisi clan) language on Bakwena (Moshweshwe clan) on words such as ke rongwe instead of ke romilwe. We may even find that some of the words come from the Khoisan. Maybe we can find the original words used by our common Basotho (in the absence of a common name, this is the currently agreed name referring to Basotho (South Sotho), Batswana (Western Sotho) and Bapedi (Northern Sotho)) ancestry. I am curios to also know what does the word SOTHO meand. Why did Moshweshwe bring the Bakwena, Batlokwa and Bataung under one tribe called Basotho. Where did he get this name from.

The dress that is traditionally associated with Batswana is called Leteisi but is known as SeShweshwe among Basotho.

If you don't know your praises; don't say Batswana don't know it themselves. If your parents don't know. just go to their original villages then you will find out. If Alex Harley was able to trace his family with incoherent names after 400 years it is easy for anybody to trace his lineage with the names that one has.

Most people won't know that Robert Marawa is Motswana but he is and somebody said his father's Setswana is impeccable. He can sing his praise in Isizulu because that makes him to feel cultured. but listen to somebody speaking Setswana is just heavenly. Most of Transvaal and Northern Cape of old are places of Batswana. Batswana are also in Angola, Zambia and Namibia.

Batswana in Botswana are not custodians of Setswana and they don’t know better than any Motswana who really wants to know himself - just they are from Botswana. If all of us (more so Batswana in Botswana and South Africa) can work together were can unravel this riddle.

Badiboa can never be trial in kgotla wa ga Mokgopha as their status does not allow. Barolong can only trace their relation to Batlhaping but not to other Batswana. Bahurutshe are regard to be the elders but the reasons of why varies, it depend to whoever you are listening to ( My uncle says that the Bahurutshe are regard as elders so that they can test the muthi for wars ( if the muthi is poisonous or not).

The story from my grandmother morwadi Matlhaku a Setshiro sa ga Ratlou-a-Tau-a-Thulare-a-Masepa-a-Mokgopha is: The first people are the Basarwa (the San). The earth was wet and people where living in the cage. Mosarwa was asked to go out to see if the land was dry and he never came back to report but chase after animals. Then Tebele was the second to go and look, he never came back his children are the Ngunis; and then the story becomes muddy from there as I believe it was Masilo le Masilonyane who went after Tebele. They left with Morongwe le Morongwenyane. And Batswana and Basotho (north and south) are the descended from Masilo and Masilonyane. That is my grandmother story.

But the most common denominator is that we are the descended of Lowe. In place where I grew up there are footprint of animals and human on the rocks and are commonly known as the print of Matsieng who the story said that he walked the land just after volcano and the lava was cooling down. There is no known history of volcano in the memory of our people but most of the tales will talk about ha maje a sentse a tobetsega meaning when the stone were still soft. Most of the tales about Batswana will recall great lakes which will mean that they have spent times around the lakes. But there is also history of lakes in Southern Africa. Morolong was known as great ironsmith hence Barolong are called ba ga Noto (children of Iron) and he left other Batswana because of infighting.

Batswana are great people and to those (more so the Ngunis )who believe that Batswana did not have great warriors and were just timid, that will be wrong as The names of Kgosi Toto,Kgama and Tau are mention with great adoration; and if you look into history of the Ngunis their documented great warrior is Shaka and that will tell you that before Shaka they live in peace amount themselves. I am not Tswana I am Motswana. Batswana in Botswana are not custodian of our culture and they are not necessarily knowledgeable of everything Setswana. Listen to you family names during praise song (poko) and you will defiantly know who you are. If you don’t know the praises go to your relatives weddings, unveiling of tombstone and some of the feast and that is where you will hear about yourself, and please write down whatever you hear. Take a note book and pen for writing when you visiting relative.

For those who are confused about Setswana dressing the common dress for Batswana woman is called Leteisi commonly known as Seshweshwe amount Basotho. You just wrap yourself around and tie it up simple. As for man they just where western clothes as they are. Traditionally Batswana men wear Tshega while Boys wear seope. Girls will were makgabe while Ladies will wear Motlhokolo. Dibaga will be wear by women and girls to enhance their beauty. Then they will use letshoku as vaseline. Then for warmth they will put over kobo made of sheep skin.

As for marriage custom; the young man who wants to marry a young lady will just send delegation of even numbered people (men and women) to the family of the girl he wants to marry. In Serolong it should be early before Sun rise. The family of the guy is known as dira (enemies), when they arrive at the ladies they must announce themselves (ba ipege) before they are allowed in. After they are allowed in then they introduce themselves and explain what is it they are looking for (in other culture you have to pay before the girls people can talk to you not in Serolong).

If Batswana migrated from East of Africa as claimed, why then there are no common traits with at least one of the tribes in East Africa. For ease of reference, the most prevalent languages in East Africa are Kiswahili, Kirundi and Kinyarwanda which are far from sounding like Setswana or Sesotho for that matter. Also the Eastern part of Africa compromises of the following countries Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi. Their culture, customary practices and tradition differs a lot from ours(Basotho le Batswana). I am concerned about this fellow who shamelessly claimed to be an expert or custodian of Batswana history.

I feel that this is an insult to us all not just to the Batswana. He needs to be stopped and educated before he cause more damage by posting another confusing information on the net about South African tribes. I would advise him to go and do a proper research about his own ancestral history and feed his true findings to those who care to know more about their origin. It will not surprise us if he will tell the whole world that Basotho migrated from Holland as we all aware that the Basotho tribe in Free State are very eloquent in Afrikaans which sounds more like Dutch. I would also like to remind our writer that the indigenous of this country are no longer living under the rulership of the colonial masters who denied us access to educational and informative material for our empowerment.

From the responses relating to your provocative and un-true info, this is enough proof that we have long made a self discovery of who we are, where we are coming from and where we are going to. We will also guard our heritage for it makes us to be who we are. Need I remind you, that we are no longer shut outside the developing world, we are now living in advanced times and up-to-date with the latest technology. We will do everything to our power to ensure that our AFRICAN history is preserved and not marred. Let us stop perverting the truth and leave it to the custodians of our rich culture, who will in due time release it to the up and coming generation to avoid history from repeating itself.

Another fact is that Basotho are a branch of Bakwena, who are in essence Batswana. Bafokeng are also Bakwena and some of my Bahuruthse ancestors also joined Basotho led by Dibetswe. A brother to my Great Grandfather Diutlwileng, who impressed Robert Moffat with his hospitality while regent at Gaditshwene, that he noted in his diary about a huge beer party thrown for the visitors in a settlement that was ten times bigger than the then Cape Town. It is sad to note that we are seeking a certain Mogale after whom Magaliesberg is named.

I now live in the USA and I have no one to ask! I have to let my children know who I am and where I come from. It is important for me to let them know exactly who I am.

Dr David Livingstone even went further explaining that the Tswana And Khoe lived together in peace when he arived in S.A and also indicating intermarriage between the People. As far as where we realy are from nobody knows.

The Tswana and Sotho are related. Sotho's emmigrated to the interior of S.A because of in fighting. As a matter of fact Southern Sotho is not that diffirent from Tswana. It changed because of French missinonary when trying to put languages in writting. (Check old Sotho and Tswana Bibles that were written by non Tswana or non Sotho speakers.)

As far as labelling The Tswana and Sotho under bantu people, is a stupid idea by a European. Bantu are the Ngunis (Zulu, Ndebele, Xhosa, Swati). They speak Nguni dialects and absolutely do not sound like any Sotho Language. Also The Tswana/Sotho system of goverment is more stratified than the Ngunis. (Not biased statement but a fact, even Dr Livingstone pointed this out.)

The rest, including some who claim or are supposedly researchers (e.g. Ompopile and Job Modibane) took a subjective approach to answering questions of our origins. In many instances it was obvious that some of the comments were characterised by lack of knowledge and sad denialism.

The subjective stances included debates on whether Basotho came from Batswana or vice-versa. The fact that there is no written and commonly agreed evidence on how the names Tswana and Sotho came to be is in itself the answer to this question. Who knows, perhaps the words Tswana and Sotho originate from a group of people (or even names of Chiefs/Kings) from the same family or linguistic dialects that were largely similar. The fact that Basotho have 3 groups which are a subset of batswana (because Batswana have more than three) does not prove that Basotho broke from Batswana especially since King Moshweshwe united the groups under the Sotho name and no breakaway clan were born as a result.

Needless to say we must rely on scientific methods to establish undeniable truth until further evidence prove otherwise.

Someone mentioned cyclic migration which I believe needs to be understood how it can explain our diversity as a specie. This because the language we also use is influenced by the Migration. I am interested to understand how the interaction between different groups may have created new languages. For example I have not yet come accross an explanation as to why the phonetic G/KH and X! seem to be common between the San on the one hand and the Tswana and Xhosa on the other. Co-incidentally both these groups live in close proximity of each other (The Cape and the Kalahari). The San are a common denominator.

The value given about the 14th century is false -- probably intentionally so. By the way, mealies were introduced by the Portuguese to the Congo in the 16th century, and it took the crop a long time to spread to other regions, so this claim that Batswana grew Portuguese maize in the 14th century -- 200 years before it came to Africa -- is patently false, and pretty much sums up how fallacious the rest of the article is. Archeology and linguistics -- which, unlike oral ("Black") history and written ("White") history, are actually - science show that

a. The ancestors of Batswana, and all the other "black" nations in South Africa except the San, originated from Western Africa more than three thousand years ago. Not Egypt, not South Africa, but roughly in the region of the Congo and Nigeria. This is confirmed primarily by linguistic evidence. The so-called Bantu languages are spoken all over sub-Saharan Africa, and the languages of Nigeria are closely related to our languages, forming the very large Niger-Congo language family (the largest language family on the planet) which includes Setswana, isiZulu, Kiswahili, Igbo, Kru, Yoruba, and almost all other languages spoken by sub-Saharan Africans (excluding, for example, the language of the Maasai people, which is of the Nilo-Saharan family, or the languages of Ethiopia and ancient Kush which, like Ancient Egyptian, are Afro-Asiatic).

b. The common ancestors of Batswana and Basotho arrived in the Limpopo about 1500 years ago. That's about 500 CE, as one comment about pointed out. How do we know this? Because we've found pottery with typical Sotho-Tswana design patterns (distinct from the patterns of eg the Nguni people or the civilisations of Mapungubwe and Zimbabwe) in the area, and we have dated it to that period using radiocarbon dating of plant fragments that were stuck in the clay (the same technique that's used to calculate how long ago dinosaurs lived on the earth, etc). Similar techniques, for example, prove the stories that Vhavenda have about being descendants of the civilisation of Mapungubwe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger-Congo_languages

As for originating from East Africa I am not too sure but what I know is that bones of the Setswana language are found everywhere in Africa, for example the Egyptian word for female is 'kadi' similar to our 'gadi' as used in tshegadi. It is these cognates which lead researchers to conclude about our origins.The are many such cognates between the Bantu and Nilotic languages. Maybe we worked on the same scaffolding during the construction of the Tower of Babel, who knows? (tongue firmly in cheeck)

Oral tradition says we came from up north in Africa and in my own tribe it is said we moved because of incessant rain and war, but the migration did not occur overnight, it took millenia, the Barolong recognise at least three waves of such migrations and this is collaborated by the Bafokeng oral tradition.

Mogale was a great king from whom many tribes emanated but he was not our comon ancestor. However all Batswana talk of Lowe (in a masculine reference) and his servant Gseitsiwe or Gaeitsiwe, this points to a common albeit forgotten origin.

One thing is for sure though, we arrived here on the southern tip of Africa long before Jan van Riebeeck. Barolong iron mines are found in what is today called Melvilee Koppies (yes - Melville the trendy bohemian hang out of yuppies in J'burg).

It is in most of the cases potray us as weak, lazy and less South African than any other group in SA. There is no difference between the batswana in Botswana and those in SA besides the fact that they are Bitswana nationalist and we South African. For Batswana living in SA we must start to stand up and preserve our history and heritage. As people if we allow the status quo we will recede. We owe it to our children and many batswana generations to come.

The staus quo will if left make us inferior people here in SA. For instance, We always hear about Van Riebeeck, Shaka, Hintsa or Sekhukhuni as if we do not have our own heros who protected our lands and cause. We always hear about Albert Lithuli, Oliver Thambo, Mbeki, Mandela, why is no mention of DR Moroka. Why is no mention of Moses Kotane why no mention of DR Silas Modiri Molema.The recently lost one of batswana icons recently ( The father of BEE) Dr Thato Mmotlana who if he was not a motswana either a hospital or a airport could have been named after him. (may his soul rest in peace) I should not be accused of ethnicity but what am sayin is Dr Moroka should be given the same praise as chief Albert Lithuli as he was not less the president of the ANC than the others.

If we stand up we will also put an ifiriority complex we are teated with fro instance, large number of people living in Mogale City, Rustenburg, Makikeng and many other towns in Tranvaal are setswana speakers and yet with rich history and you will find that puplic institutions in those areas are named afeter other people than the heroes and heroines of those areas

Even the ATM in Mafikeng will give the language options English, Afrikaans and Zulu. Selo se ke lenyatso.

Let us not allow Mogale city to be called Magalies. Let us not allow Pilane's burg to be Pilansburg.

You have not brought anything as far as I can see .

Now my argument is : How do you then say something is untrue and leave it open like that ? You again bring oral tradition in to the picture and seems to believe that it can be 100% accurate . If that is the truth then I challenge you to come up with any story whatsoever and pass it to your friends and in turn tell them to pass it on to others , I bet you after a 100 or more people the story would have gone through so many changes that you'll be supprised if it's the same story.

After this excercise then tell me if you believe every story you hear about your history, especially from people who used events such as drought, floods ,famine to measure time.

It's sad that you use the example of whites defeating Zulus in Zululand, this itself demonstrates your lack of understanding regarding the age the author is referring to. Bear in mind that whites only came to South Africa around 1652 when the likes of Jan van Riebeeck landed in the Cape. There were already Blacks in parts of South Africa around this time .The truth is that there was already Blacks living in South Africa around this time and way before .The diggins in Mapungubwe indicate that there were Black people living here around the 1200's and before .On that note, nobody is saying that the Batswana were in Central Africa when whites arrived . You seem to forget that Black people have a history that goes back 1000's of years back .The starting point for you is to know that the so called Sotho/Tswana group were once one.

Due to these southerly migrations in search of fertile land as well as minor family disputes they grew apart as each group developed their own dialects . So the author is not in any way saying that Batswana people as we know them today came from central Africa .The reason for you to misunderstand him is because you do not look beyond the 17th or even 16th century . You fail to see that In order for Batswana to be there, there were predecessors (this what the author is referring to). This is a fact with even white people. An easy to undertand example is The Afrikaners. They are descendants of the dutch people, who in turn are a descendants of other people. Most of your outburst can be equated to an person of Ndebele origin vehemently denying the fact that they were once under Shaka Zulu.

Hell No, I never believe nor have I ever believed in white supremacy, but I believe that in order to prove someone is wrong , you have to come up with evidence that proves the negative.

I'm one of those people who've been yearning to learn more about his origins. I asked my grandafather who was the yougest of five boys and was born in 1925. All he could tell me about my clan was that we came from the "Transvaal ". On enquiring which part of The Transvaal he could not say. It does not help me, knowing that there was Eastern Tvl , Nothern Tvl , Central Tvl and Western Transvaal. I did some research and learned that we could have come from a realationship between the Great Bakgatla king by the name of Tabane and Mmathulare .

Also a few years ago, I happened to be watching a documentary on BBC I believe. It was about the people of Liberia. What caught my attention was one of their traditional dances & clothing. Everything they did was similar to the way we dance. How they stood in a half moon shape, clapped and sang while a few individuals and couples danced.

I personally think that the key to finding our origins lies in the language of Batswana and their custom.

Whilst the search for truth continues, let us not bash each other, for the nature of Batswana is not a mean spirit nor barbaric in any way. I think we can disagree with whatever content is posted in a respectful manner.

The Bible itself has been written, rewritten, countless times by colonialists, and other people with their own interests at heart. It has many different versions by many different churches?

Which one is true?

Some of the Afrikaner Churches believed (and some still do!) That 'they '- the Boers, are Gods chosen people, and 'us' - the Kaffirs, are the devils people...I don't know, I was taught that the Israelites were Gods chosen people. But then again maybe 'my' version is biased away from my enemy (the racist), and thus, it is biased towards me.

Maybe that is why I believe it. Which one would YOU believe?

Now... back to this topic... if a person of, lets say 'settler origin' writes a history book that tells you that when he settled here, you were not around... you were in East Africa, would you believe him?

If you believe him, why do the same history books that the same settler guy wrote, tell us of their bloody victory over amaZulu in Kwazulu? If the only people they found in South Africa (Or Azania) were the San and the Khoi?

How did they kill The Zulu people in Zululand, if they were in Central Africa?
... apparently, from the same settler books, Central Africa is where the Zulu People come from.

Tshidi, and Stephan.... being South African... With our very young history of racial oppression, How can you believe books which were written during that same era of oppression? It's obvious that they will be biased.

True African traditional leaders have a version that has the lowest possibility of bias... They have nothing to gain from obscuring the truth from the people. They are the only remaining keepers of our true past.

Tshidi, our ancestors did not write any books. Our history is recorded in the minds of our true traditional leaders. It is passed on... generation to generation. Each generation tells it the exact same way as he received it. It cannot be changed, that is why it is still preserved. That is why you wont find it in any of your books, nor the Internet.

The only books that could shed light on this matter would be books of Archeology. Those are backed by physical evidence... Not speculation.

Always remember: History favours those who write it!

And Tshidi, This topic is a product of Stephan's 'HOBBY'. He is not a qualified researcher. He is a Hobbyist. So why do you believe him over people who preserve 'Your' history as their 'livelihood'?

Do you believe in 'white supremacy', Tshidi?

Most importantly come to grips with the fact that you all must bring sources to prove the author above wrong. Without tha , you have no choice but to believe him.

We do not come from East Africa! We do not get our name from the colonial settlers!

He must go and do more research. Go to Mogale City (Krugersdorp, West of Johannesburg in South Africa). Go to the place of origin of all mankind, its a place called "the Cradle of Mankind"! He won't miss it, the signage is written in English. The people who lived there were, and are Batswana.

Scientific evidence proves that the earliest people in South Africa were Batswana. Batswana were here before the colonialists... so how do the Batswana get their names from the colonialists?

And as for Bahurutshe being the eldest of the BaTswana People... I reject that as well. I was taught that Barakile are the eldest and biggest 'clan' of Batswana. They are not Bahurutshe... They are Barolong... This myth must have been spread by Mangope. I reject him also as Kgosi ya Batswana.

I agree with him when he says that BaTswana and BaSotho have a common Ancestory. BaSotho are from BaTswana. So the ancestor will be one.

As Batswana we need to do more to try and write our own history... otherwise it will be lost. Ask, Read, Travel Around South Africa and Botswana... learn about yourself, The Internet can't help you.

---------BTW-------------

Calling people "Tswanas" is being straight disrespectful. When you are talking about people who speak SeTswana, You call them "BaTswana", not Tswanas. In Singular we say "Motswana".

If you are prepared to call me "a Tswana",

you better call your brothers "a English", "englishes" if there are many of them... you better call your brothers "a French", "frenches" if there are many of them... you better call your brother "a Ducth", "dutches" if there are many of them...

And I have tried to put it for myself into perspective. Yes, we all have a past, some good, others not so good, otherwise we wouldn’t have been here today talking would we?
But the past are normally carried from generation to generation. Then you get the optimistic individual who thinks he/ she got it down to a par and needs to share it with the whole world and writes about it, and oh boy, then he/ she just have it, all the criticism and judgements etc is coming the writers way! And he/ she thought they are doing the world a favour by passing on information!

My take on this is: The tales and “Facts” which normally comes forward in this “history” are based on the individual or group’s frame of reference, and the methodology they used in acquiring the information, and this can go into any direction pending on how that individual or group’s beliefs, customs etc are being made up of, and how important the piece of history/ information was/ is for the people who lived in that specific time. If it was of great significance people would have made a greater effort to document it/ carry it forward (I think).

We need to look at all the criticism constructively, and also give constructive criticism. As new information on a specific culture/ tribe becomes available, the history books needs to be amended. This, after it was put into context, by discussing it with the relevant tribe/ culture for authentication. What I do think is: that there must be a formal way of doing things though, this way a lot of “maybe’s” and almost true “Facts” can be ruled out, and we, the ones who really want to know true history on any civilisation/ tribe/ culture can benefit and learn from it.

The thing we need to remember is: If you have been born in South Africa you are a proud South African, doesn’t matter what the skin tone, religion, history or customs are/ were.

What’s also important, is how we are going to write future history. Will our children’s children benefit from what they read and learn of their past, which will be us of course? I am a white female, born and bred in this country, and let me tell you, we need to cherish our future as it was based on a very difficult past, and this goes for everyone.

And let me tell you, we share a whole lot, and we as collective South African’s have a lot more in common than some of us would like to admit. We all share family values, we all share the same basic needs like stability, prosperity, safety. We all want what’s best for our kids, we just practise it in different ways. In the same breath we need to honour, respect and value other people’s culture, customs, history and beliefs, and I agree, we need to document this in an unemotional, factual way.

I hope I can visit this site in the near future and get a good understanding of the Tswana people, as well as the other cultures/ tribes of South Africa!

Kind regards to everyone, may you all experience an awesome year!

Batswana were once a single tribe who had a single totem "phofu", later they split into different tribes bahurutshe beign the eldest, Kwena, Ngwato, Ngwaketsi, etc. It is believed that this "seperation" or "go tswana" could have been the origin of the word "Batswana" meaning "ba a tswana". The other theory is that since the various Tsawna tribes had similarities (go tshwana) obviously resulting from a common origin, they were called "Ba a tshwana" (they look alike). They falsehood that Batswana never knew themselves as Batswana is a blatant lie cleverly craftyed a colonialist with the aim of erasing the history of Batswana, which unfortunately has been swallowed even by other unsuspecting Batswana.

Yes Batswana have for many centuries never had a single King. We recognize the seniority of the Bahurutshe but do not pay homage to them since we have independent Kingdoms (I avoid chiefdoms because the British colonialists could not tolerate the idea of more than one king in the so-called British empire, hence our Kings were given derogaroty terms such as chiefs.)

Now about the Basotho. When the King of Lesotho Visited Botswana sometime between 2000 and 2002 he made a confession that many Basotho deny (i.e. the Basotho at least the family of Moshoeshoe are actually Bakwena). It takes no intelligent person to tell that since Bakwena are primarily Batswana, Basotho that trace their origins to Moshoeshoe are descendents of Bakwena and Batswana (just as many Afrikaners are of Dutch origin). Where doe this belief that the Tswana are Western-Sotho come from. If The Tswana are ancenstors of the South Sothos why are they then called after their children and classified as part of a Sotho sub-group? I asked Many Setswana Doctors and professors. Yes you guessed it right it was a creation of ambitions explorers and missionaries who for ease of classification called the whole group the Sotho.

We need to get over this white black conflict. The bloodshed needs to stop, how can we ever fathom to be a united world if we don't act in peace and resolve these things civilly. The past has happened so we can learn from it, and it is important to have FACTS rather than racial assumptive slur. Racism has to stop! History has shown that racism and the acts induced by it have led to nothing but a divided world.

Grow up and learn from past mistakes Keneilwe before you make any comments!