We need to get over this white black conflict. The bloodshed needs to stop, how can we ever fathom to be a united world if we don't act in peace and resolve these things civilly. The past has happened so we can learn from it, and it is important to have FACTS rather than racial assumptive slur. Racism has to stop! History has shown that racism and the acts induced by it have led to nothing but a divided world.

Grow up and learn from past mistakes Keneilwe before you make any comments!

Batswana were once a single tribe who had a single totem "phofu", later they split into different tribes bahurutshe beign the eldest, Kwena, Ngwato, Ngwaketsi, etc. It is believed that this "seperation" or "go tswana" could have been the origin of the word "Batswana" meaning "ba a tswana". The other theory is that since the various Tsawna tribes had similarities (go tshwana) obviously resulting from a common origin, they were called "Ba a tshwana" (they look alike). They falsehood that Batswana never knew themselves as Batswana is a blatant lie cleverly craftyed a colonialist with the aim of erasing the history of Batswana, which unfortunately has been swallowed even by other unsuspecting Batswana.

Yes Batswana have for many centuries never had a single King. We recognize the seniority of the Bahurutshe but do not pay homage to them since we have independent Kingdoms (I avoid chiefdoms because the British colonialists could not tolerate the idea of more than one king in the so-called British empire, hence our Kings were given derogaroty terms such as chiefs.)

Now about the Basotho. When the King of Lesotho Visited Botswana sometime between 2000 and 2002 he made a confession that many Basotho deny (i.e. the Basotho at least the family of Moshoeshoe are actually Bakwena). It takes no intelligent person to tell that since Bakwena are primarily Batswana, Basotho that trace their origins to Moshoeshoe are descendents of Bakwena and Batswana (just as many Afrikaners are of Dutch origin). Where doe this belief that the Tswana are Western-Sotho come from. If The Tswana are ancenstors of the South Sothos why are they then called after their children and classified as part of a Sotho sub-group? I asked Many Setswana Doctors and professors. Yes you guessed it right it was a creation of ambitions explorers and missionaries who for ease of classification called the whole group the Sotho.

And I have tried to put it for myself into perspective. Yes, we all have a past, some good, others not so good, otherwise we wouldn’t have been here today talking would we?
But the past are normally carried from generation to generation. Then you get the optimistic individual who thinks he/ she got it down to a par and needs to share it with the whole world and writes about it, and oh boy, then he/ she just have it, all the criticism and judgements etc is coming the writers way! And he/ she thought they are doing the world a favour by passing on information!

My take on this is: The tales and “Facts” which normally comes forward in this “history” are based on the individual or group’s frame of reference, and the methodology they used in acquiring the information, and this can go into any direction pending on how that individual or group’s beliefs, customs etc are being made up of, and how important the piece of history/ information was/ is for the people who lived in that specific time. If it was of great significance people would have made a greater effort to document it/ carry it forward (I think).

We need to look at all the criticism constructively, and also give constructive criticism. As new information on a specific culture/ tribe becomes available, the history books needs to be amended. This, after it was put into context, by discussing it with the relevant tribe/ culture for authentication. What I do think is: that there must be a formal way of doing things though, this way a lot of “maybe’s” and almost true “Facts” can be ruled out, and we, the ones who really want to know true history on any civilisation/ tribe/ culture can benefit and learn from it.

The thing we need to remember is: If you have been born in South Africa you are a proud South African, doesn’t matter what the skin tone, religion, history or customs are/ were.

What’s also important, is how we are going to write future history. Will our children’s children benefit from what they read and learn of their past, which will be us of course? I am a white female, born and bred in this country, and let me tell you, we need to cherish our future as it was based on a very difficult past, and this goes for everyone.

And let me tell you, we share a whole lot, and we as collective South African’s have a lot more in common than some of us would like to admit. We all share family values, we all share the same basic needs like stability, prosperity, safety. We all want what’s best for our kids, we just practise it in different ways. In the same breath we need to honour, respect and value other people’s culture, customs, history and beliefs, and I agree, we need to document this in an unemotional, factual way.

I hope I can visit this site in the near future and get a good understanding of the Tswana people, as well as the other cultures/ tribes of South Africa!

Kind regards to everyone, may you all experience an awesome year!

We do not come from East Africa! We do not get our name from the colonial settlers!

He must go and do more research. Go to Mogale City (Krugersdorp, West of Johannesburg in South Africa). Go to the place of origin of all mankind, its a place called "the Cradle of Mankind"! He won't miss it, the signage is written in English. The people who lived there were, and are Batswana.

Scientific evidence proves that the earliest people in South Africa were Batswana. Batswana were here before the colonialists... so how do the Batswana get their names from the colonialists?

And as for Bahurutshe being the eldest of the BaTswana People... I reject that as well. I was taught that Barakile are the eldest and biggest 'clan' of Batswana. They are not Bahurutshe... They are Barolong... This myth must have been spread by Mangope. I reject him also as Kgosi ya Batswana.

I agree with him when he says that BaTswana and BaSotho have a common Ancestory. BaSotho are from BaTswana. So the ancestor will be one.

As Batswana we need to do more to try and write our own history... otherwise it will be lost. Ask, Read, Travel Around South Africa and Botswana... learn about yourself, The Internet can't help you.

---------BTW-------------

Calling people "Tswanas" is being straight disrespectful. When you are talking about people who speak SeTswana, You call them "BaTswana", not Tswanas. In Singular we say "Motswana".

If you are prepared to call me "a Tswana",

you better call your brothers "a English", "englishes" if there are many of them... you better call your brothers "a French", "frenches" if there are many of them... you better call your brother "a Ducth", "dutches" if there are many of them...

Most importantly come to grips with the fact that you all must bring sources to prove the author above wrong. Without tha , you have no choice but to believe him.

The Bible itself has been written, rewritten, countless times by colonialists, and other people with their own interests at heart. It has many different versions by many different churches?

Which one is true?

Some of the Afrikaner Churches believed (and some still do!) That 'they '- the Boers, are Gods chosen people, and 'us' - the Kaffirs, are the devils people...I don't know, I was taught that the Israelites were Gods chosen people. But then again maybe 'my' version is biased away from my enemy (the racist), and thus, it is biased towards me.

Maybe that is why I believe it. Which one would YOU believe?

Now... back to this topic... if a person of, lets say 'settler origin' writes a history book that tells you that when he settled here, you were not around... you were in East Africa, would you believe him?

If you believe him, why do the same history books that the same settler guy wrote, tell us of their bloody victory over amaZulu in Kwazulu? If the only people they found in South Africa (Or Azania) were the San and the Khoi?

How did they kill The Zulu people in Zululand, if they were in Central Africa?
... apparently, from the same settler books, Central Africa is where the Zulu People come from.

Tshidi, and Stephan.... being South African... With our very young history of racial oppression, How can you believe books which were written during that same era of oppression? It's obvious that they will be biased.

True African traditional leaders have a version that has the lowest possibility of bias... They have nothing to gain from obscuring the truth from the people. They are the only remaining keepers of our true past.

Tshidi, our ancestors did not write any books. Our history is recorded in the minds of our true traditional leaders. It is passed on... generation to generation. Each generation tells it the exact same way as he received it. It cannot be changed, that is why it is still preserved. That is why you wont find it in any of your books, nor the Internet.

The only books that could shed light on this matter would be books of Archeology. Those are backed by physical evidence... Not speculation.

Always remember: History favours those who write it!

And Tshidi, This topic is a product of Stephan's 'HOBBY'. He is not a qualified researcher. He is a Hobbyist. So why do you believe him over people who preserve 'Your' history as their 'livelihood'?

Do you believe in 'white supremacy', Tshidi?

Also a few years ago, I happened to be watching a documentary on BBC I believe. It was about the people of Liberia. What caught my attention was one of their traditional dances & clothing. Everything they did was similar to the way we dance. How they stood in a half moon shape, clapped and sang while a few individuals and couples danced.

I personally think that the key to finding our origins lies in the language of Batswana and their custom.

Whilst the search for truth continues, let us not bash each other, for the nature of Batswana is not a mean spirit nor barbaric in any way. I think we can disagree with whatever content is posted in a respectful manner.

You have not brought anything as far as I can see .

Now my argument is : How do you then say something is untrue and leave it open like that ? You again bring oral tradition in to the picture and seems to believe that it can be 100% accurate . If that is the truth then I challenge you to come up with any story whatsoever and pass it to your friends and in turn tell them to pass it on to others , I bet you after a 100 or more people the story would have gone through so many changes that you'll be supprised if it's the same story.

After this excercise then tell me if you believe every story you hear about your history, especially from people who used events such as drought, floods ,famine to measure time.

It's sad that you use the example of whites defeating Zulus in Zululand, this itself demonstrates your lack of understanding regarding the age the author is referring to. Bear in mind that whites only came to South Africa around 1652 when the likes of Jan van Riebeeck landed in the Cape. There were already Blacks in parts of South Africa around this time .The truth is that there was already Blacks living in South Africa around this time and way before .The diggins in Mapungubwe indicate that there were Black people living here around the 1200's and before .On that note, nobody is saying that the Batswana were in Central Africa when whites arrived . You seem to forget that Black people have a history that goes back 1000's of years back .The starting point for you is to know that the so called Sotho/Tswana group were once one.

Due to these southerly migrations in search of fertile land as well as minor family disputes they grew apart as each group developed their own dialects . So the author is not in any way saying that Batswana people as we know them today came from central Africa .The reason for you to misunderstand him is because you do not look beyond the 17th or even 16th century . You fail to see that In order for Batswana to be there, there were predecessors (this what the author is referring to). This is a fact with even white people. An easy to undertand example is The Afrikaners. They are descendants of the dutch people, who in turn are a descendants of other people. Most of your outburst can be equated to an person of Ndebele origin vehemently denying the fact that they were once under Shaka Zulu.

Hell No, I never believe nor have I ever believed in white supremacy, but I believe that in order to prove someone is wrong , you have to come up with evidence that proves the negative.

I'm one of those people who've been yearning to learn more about his origins. I asked my grandafather who was the yougest of five boys and was born in 1925. All he could tell me about my clan was that we came from the "Transvaal ". On enquiring which part of The Transvaal he could not say. It does not help me, knowing that there was Eastern Tvl , Nothern Tvl , Central Tvl and Western Transvaal. I did some research and learned that we could have come from a realationship between the Great Bakgatla king by the name of Tabane and Mmathulare .

It is in most of the cases potray us as weak, lazy and less South African than any other group in SA. There is no difference between the batswana in Botswana and those in SA besides the fact that they are Bitswana nationalist and we South African. For Batswana living in SA we must start to stand up and preserve our history and heritage. As people if we allow the status quo we will recede. We owe it to our children and many batswana generations to come.

The staus quo will if left make us inferior people here in SA. For instance, We always hear about Van Riebeeck, Shaka, Hintsa or Sekhukhuni as if we do not have our own heros who protected our lands and cause. We always hear about Albert Lithuli, Oliver Thambo, Mbeki, Mandela, why is no mention of DR Moroka. Why is no mention of Moses Kotane why no mention of DR Silas Modiri Molema.The recently lost one of batswana icons recently ( The father of BEE) Dr Thato Mmotlana who if he was not a motswana either a hospital or a airport could have been named after him. (may his soul rest in peace) I should not be accused of ethnicity but what am sayin is Dr Moroka should be given the same praise as chief Albert Lithuli as he was not less the president of the ANC than the others.

If we stand up we will also put an ifiriority complex we are teated with fro instance, large number of people living in Mogale City, Rustenburg, Makikeng and many other towns in Tranvaal are setswana speakers and yet with rich history and you will find that puplic institutions in those areas are named afeter other people than the heroes and heroines of those areas

Even the ATM in Mafikeng will give the language options English, Afrikaans and Zulu. Selo se ke lenyatso.

Let us not allow Mogale city to be called Magalies. Let us not allow Pilane's burg to be Pilansburg.

As for originating from East Africa I am not too sure but what I know is that bones of the Setswana language are found everywhere in Africa, for example the Egyptian word for female is 'kadi' similar to our 'gadi' as used in tshegadi. It is these cognates which lead researchers to conclude about our origins.The are many such cognates between the Bantu and Nilotic languages. Maybe we worked on the same scaffolding during the construction of the Tower of Babel, who knows? (tongue firmly in cheeck)

Oral tradition says we came from up north in Africa and in my own tribe it is said we moved because of incessant rain and war, but the migration did not occur overnight, it took millenia, the Barolong recognise at least three waves of such migrations and this is collaborated by the Bafokeng oral tradition.

Mogale was a great king from whom many tribes emanated but he was not our comon ancestor. However all Batswana talk of Lowe (in a masculine reference) and his servant Gseitsiwe or Gaeitsiwe, this points to a common albeit forgotten origin.

One thing is for sure though, we arrived here on the southern tip of Africa long before Jan van Riebeeck. Barolong iron mines are found in what is today called Melvilee Koppies (yes - Melville the trendy bohemian hang out of yuppies in J'burg).

The value given about the 14th century is false -- probably intentionally so. By the way, mealies were introduced by the Portuguese to the Congo in the 16th century, and it took the crop a long time to spread to other regions, so this claim that Batswana grew Portuguese maize in the 14th century -- 200 years before it came to Africa -- is patently false, and pretty much sums up how fallacious the rest of the article is. Archeology and linguistics -- which, unlike oral ("Black") history and written ("White") history, are actually - science show that

a. The ancestors of Batswana, and all the other "black" nations in South Africa except the San, originated from Western Africa more than three thousand years ago. Not Egypt, not South Africa, but roughly in the region of the Congo and Nigeria. This is confirmed primarily by linguistic evidence. The so-called Bantu languages are spoken all over sub-Saharan Africa, and the languages of Nigeria are closely related to our languages, forming the very large Niger-Congo language family (the largest language family on the planet) which includes Setswana, isiZulu, Kiswahili, Igbo, Kru, Yoruba, and almost all other languages spoken by sub-Saharan Africans (excluding, for example, the language of the Maasai people, which is of the Nilo-Saharan family, or the languages of Ethiopia and ancient Kush which, like Ancient Egyptian, are Afro-Asiatic).

b. The common ancestors of Batswana and Basotho arrived in the Limpopo about 1500 years ago. That's about 500 CE, as one comment about pointed out. How do we know this? Because we've found pottery with typical Sotho-Tswana design patterns (distinct from the patterns of eg the Nguni people or the civilisations of Mapungubwe and Zimbabwe) in the area, and we have dated it to that period using radiocarbon dating of plant fragments that were stuck in the clay (the same technique that's used to calculate how long ago dinosaurs lived on the earth, etc). Similar techniques, for example, prove the stories that Vhavenda have about being descendants of the civilisation of Mapungubwe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger-Congo_languages

The rest, including some who claim or are supposedly researchers (e.g. Ompopile and Job Modibane) took a subjective approach to answering questions of our origins. In many instances it was obvious that some of the comments were characterised by lack of knowledge and sad denialism.

The subjective stances included debates on whether Basotho came from Batswana or vice-versa. The fact that there is no written and commonly agreed evidence on how the names Tswana and Sotho came to be is in itself the answer to this question. Who knows, perhaps the words Tswana and Sotho originate from a group of people (or even names of Chiefs/Kings) from the same family or linguistic dialects that were largely similar. The fact that Basotho have 3 groups which are a subset of batswana (because Batswana have more than three) does not prove that Basotho broke from Batswana especially since King Moshweshwe united the groups under the Sotho name and no breakaway clan were born as a result.

Needless to say we must rely on scientific methods to establish undeniable truth until further evidence prove otherwise.

Someone mentioned cyclic migration which I believe needs to be understood how it can explain our diversity as a specie. This because the language we also use is influenced by the Migration. I am interested to understand how the interaction between different groups may have created new languages. For example I have not yet come accross an explanation as to why the phonetic G/KH and X! seem to be common between the San on the one hand and the Tswana and Xhosa on the other. Co-incidentally both these groups live in close proximity of each other (The Cape and the Kalahari). The San are a common denominator.

Dr David Livingstone even went further explaining that the Tswana And Khoe lived together in peace when he arived in S.A and also indicating intermarriage between the People. As far as where we realy are from nobody knows.

The Tswana and Sotho are related. Sotho's emmigrated to the interior of S.A because of in fighting. As a matter of fact Southern Sotho is not that diffirent from Tswana. It changed because of French missinonary when trying to put languages in writting. (Check old Sotho and Tswana Bibles that were written by non Tswana or non Sotho speakers.)

As far as labelling The Tswana and Sotho under bantu people, is a stupid idea by a European. Bantu are the Ngunis (Zulu, Ndebele, Xhosa, Swati). They speak Nguni dialects and absolutely do not sound like any Sotho Language. Also The Tswana/Sotho system of goverment is more stratified than the Ngunis. (Not biased statement but a fact, even Dr Livingstone pointed this out.)

I now live in the USA and I have no one to ask! I have to let my children know who I am and where I come from. It is important for me to let them know exactly who I am.

Another fact is that Basotho are a branch of Bakwena, who are in essence Batswana. Bafokeng are also Bakwena and some of my Bahuruthse ancestors also joined Basotho led by Dibetswe. A brother to my Great Grandfather Diutlwileng, who impressed Robert Moffat with his hospitality while regent at Gaditshwene, that he noted in his diary about a huge beer party thrown for the visitors in a settlement that was ten times bigger than the then Cape Town. It is sad to note that we are seeking a certain Mogale after whom Magaliesberg is named.